more bad news for me?

78 thoughts on “more bad news for me?”

  1. Sounds like P is full of shit. Any current employer or future employer will look at advanced degree’s as a plus. Besides–she is a pimp–she’s looking for bodies to sell. You will hear that kind of B.S. from pimps all the time “oh-this job is about an hour away” translation: 120 miles. “Excellent conditions”=paying below market. “i need an answer now”= I’m afraid some other pimp will get to you with a better offer. What she says is just not true–it’s just another form of “earn $30 a hour” posters you see on telephone poles.

  2. Ahhhh—I went back to the site and read some more—you were being scarc. What a nit-wit this girl is–if a magazine is paying her for this level of writing it’s no wonder they are going belly-up. I really want to take advice from some one who does placement for Chillis and has a huge staff of 8 and has to brag “when I worked in France”.

  4. Here’s my take: She has a point that the market will soon become saturated with recent graduates of master degrees because the number of grad students goes up with a recession. Still, only about 15% of Americans achieve a graduate degree so you think that would put you up in the top 15% of being chosen when applying for better jobs. That makes sense logically but in highly populated areas where job competition is stiff, the amount of people with grad degrees increases to 25%.

    She is also right in that employers want to see relevant experience, not just a bunch of degrees. I know this for a fact when I was applying for teaching positions. I had more than double the education requested for the positions I was filling, but no relevant experience. I always lost the jobs to people with less education but more relevant experience.

    Education isn’t everything. There is alot to be said about what field you choose to pursue. Back in 1997 when the economy was still slowly creeping up from the previous lull and the job market in CA was idle, a friend of mine lost his job. He had a master’s in marketing and lots of experience, but he still got laid off. I later found out that with all the education he had and working for a major bank, he still made less money than my husband who has no degree at all.

    1. Apples & oranges. Does your husband work for the same bank? My contention is that -all else being equal-when two people go for the same job the person with the best education wins. If it’s for bag boy then yeah the phd loses because the employer knows he won’t stay.
      I am an honors graduate in economics and management (marietta college) but have never worked in that field–however–that education has served me well in my work (design/engineering). In 82-83 I worked jobs that paid as much as pumping gas-when the jobs came back so did the money. Do the math–If Masters degrees are worthless then the same can be said for Bachelors, and high school, and grade school. We can just send all the kids down in the mines and they can get good experience and get good jobs as stock brokers-no need to spend money on that worthless paper. P’s degree is in B.S. Some positions are such that you can’t get in the door without the proper degree–try getting an engineers job without a degree-can’t be done. Some crack whores probably make more than a lot of pastors with P.H.D.’s—better on the job training?

      1. Nope, apples and apples. In my field, I always lost out to people with less education and more experience. And the employers hiring didn’t care that I was an honors graduate either. I was fresh from school and had no experience. Anyone with 2-3 years worth of experience got the job over me every time. (I know because I went back and asked each time why I didn’t get the job)

        As for the example of my husband, I was comparing different employment fields so of course he doesn’t work for the bank. Some fields will simply not produce the same amount of income regardless of the degree. A manager of a law firm with an MBA is not likely to make as much money as a contracter with his own business but holds no degree. The field a person chooses to pursue does make a difference.

              1. Please–doctors and lawers make less than chicken pluckers? Every one of her 8 points is pure bull shit. They are just warmed over 60’s hippie “know yourself and suceed with your self esteem happy horse shit” (yes I mixed my meta4s) but then as that woman with 14 babies said”there’s a sucker born every minute”.

        2. weren’t the managers of the banks the ones that walked away with 50 million dollar golden parachutes? When the contractor’s business goes belly up I think his parachute is probably not as nice.

          We also didn’t take into account growth in a job. Typically the more educated you are the easier it is to hop around and demand a higher and higher salary. This option is typically out of reach of someone with only a high school degree. Those with degrees are typically … uh oh – my email says you’ve already put up two or three replies… I’m behind already…

          1. There’s plenty of room for growth in UPS. You are familiar with UPS, right? LOL. Dave has been asked to be a manager several times but has declined the position several times with good reason. There’s an extremely high divorce rate among managers at UPS. UPS is very demanding of its managers and he felt that it wasn’t worth the destruction of our marriage–especially with the three kids having autism.

            1. Well, that sounds like the right decision for him then. I don’t have anything against those without higher education – some of my friends don’t have degrees. I think career and salary wise it DOES make a difference, that is all I’m saying.

    2. Either your friend was bad at his job or UPS pays a hell of a lot more than we all thought (or both).

      As for 25% of the job market having graduate degrees… the proper advice is… stay in the other 75%?!

      By the way – the program I’m in right now is a full-time school AND full time working program. You can’t get in unless you have at least three years experience and are still working while you get the degree.

      I know someone who got an MBA from UCLA (in the 60s) and then spent a few decades in marketing before retiring and sailing around the world in his yacht. If you know what you’re doing you can make buckets of money in marketing (even in a bad economy). Can a UPS pension buy you a yacht? I would argue that it is NOT apples and oranges, your friend was just a very unlucky exception to a general rule.

      On another note. One factor I don’t think this author took into account at all are the networking opportunities in grad school (at least in business). The ranked programs (one of which I’m in) devote a lot of time to job placement, not to mention the fact that you are spending a few years of your life developing personal relationships with people who are (possibly) the next business leaders. That is a network that probably provides more six figure job opportunities than the boys at the UPS warehouse… I’d imagine…

      To add more fuel to the fire… is your husband Union?

      1. So now this is a backlash against Unions? Or are you just an education snob, who thinks that people who don’t have as much education shouldn’t be allowed to make as much or more than those who have the education?

        1. I like the idea of an “education snob.” I’ll tell you I have a hard time calling my professors or anyone else with a PhD by their first name. The way I was raised you earn respect, and having titles usually means you earned those titles (as long as you’re not British). Is someone really a snob for thinking they deserve more than someone that didn’t work as hard?

          I think this is America and if you can become a billionaire with a second grade education, good for you! Comparing apples to apples among applicants to a job, someone without as much education CERTAINLY shouldn’t be making as much money. To say other wise is insane… an education means you’re more educated about a particular topic… you’re bringing more to the table… you’re worth MORE.

          By the way – there is no law that says you can’t go back to school at any age… To whine about those with an education getting paid more is humorous to me. “But I can’t afford it!” Do you have kids? Each child costs more than the average graduate degree.

          If you don’t want to go to school and you’re fine with what you’re making… great. Just don’t resent anyone that does and goes farther.

          1. By the way, I just thought I would mention here that there are many UPS drivers who DO make 6 figure incomes, with five weeks paid vacation each year, no personal pay out for their health care benefits, and a full paid pension upon retirement–which for my husband will be at age 55. Hmmm . . . maybe working for UPS isn’t so bad. Or, is it that you are jealous that a man with no degree can accomplish so much?

            You are a snob Andrew, and people who don’t hold the same education level as you will never measure up in your eyes. That’s a shame. Obviously, you don’t realize that people who haven’t taken the time to obtain the same education, can be just as smart as you.

            1. Adrienne, I can’t keep up with you!

              I can’t say I knew that about UPS drivers and it IS surprising. And yes, I AM jealous of that. Still didn’t answer my union question though. GM workers that have nothing to do are paid $40 an hour to sit in the break room because their contract specifies a minimum paycheck regardless of available workload… does that make them just as smart as me because they’re making more money than me?

              “You are a snob Andrew, and people who don’t hold the same education level as you will never measure up in your eyes” … technically this will include my father… so in another two years my father won’t “measure up” anymore? This will also include my best friend – I suppose he won’t “measure up” either…

              Well, I’ve spent too much time blogging tonight, time to go out and do whatever it is that snobs do (I guess you’ll never know since you aren’t one of us lucky snobs!).

              1. Yes, you have to be union to work at UPS (except for management). There isn’t a choice. Personally, to my husband and I it’s a mixed bag. Those employees who excel are not rewarded for their effort and those who are slackers get the same raises. Dave and I have lamented the union for years but it’s that same union that gives him the benefits we like so much.

                As for the snob comment, I think it fits you very well. You see, I don’t have reverse snobbery when it comes to education. I have an appreciation for people who get their education. I know how hard it is to finish a degree and what it takes to do so. I once considerred pursuing a Phd in Psycology. I didn’t do it because I began having children and they are more important than having a few initials behind my name. It’s a personal choice, but it doesn’t make me inferior to anyone with a degree. In fact, there are many people I meet whom I know with asurety that I am smarter than them. They just stayed in school longer than I did. I have respect for people who are successful and hard working regardless of their situation. But those people who consider me inferior, or stupid for the lack of education, they don’t have my respect.

              2. Don’t ever think a UPS driver doesn’t work hard. Trust me, they are some of the hardest working union workers in the US. There’s a reason why UPS isn’t asking for a government bail-out. It’s because their employees work hard and make the most for the money being paid to them.

                1. When did I say they didn’t work hard? We chose UPS over all the other carriers to be our exclusive method of transport for all the cases that leave the lab… we depend on UPS.

                  Your beef with UPS is the same as mine. If your husband works harder than somebody else there he shouldn’t have to support them. The Union system doesn’t pay based on individual worth – it pays on the worth of the group… The extra money your husband would make in the absence of a union system would probably make up for the “loss” in benefits. Not to mention the wall that unions put up between themselves and management.

                  Part of being a snob is simply judging others to be inferior to you (i.e. labeling them a snob). When in all this back and forth did I ever say “Adrienne, you and your husband aren’t as smart as me?” Did I say that?

                  Yet here we have “You are a snob, Andrew.”

                  I guess I just practice reverse hypocrisy.

                    1. No, because you labeled me a snob for labeling those who don’t have as much education as stupid… which I never actually did… So, you’re doing the same thing (labeling) that you have accused me of by calling me a snob.

                      Still don’t get it?

        2. And yet the “education snobs” always seemto be running things. Why is that? No educated people= no UPS drivers . By the way–UPS used to be a case study in management classes on how to do it right–irony anyone?

            1. Management or supervision? I ask again- what part of all else being equal don’t you understand? Experience is education–do you have to be bit by a cobra to know you will die? In that case education can save your life and experience can kill you (actual case study by me). It’s irony because you are living off a company that values education and use it as an example for the idea that experience trumps education–re. the first post–get it? Irony? Or do you need more education?

  5. Andrew, let me ask you this. What is it you are hoping to accomplish with your MBA? Are you hoping to leave your particular field and be able to apply your experience to a higher paying field? (sorry, I just don’t think there’s too much money to be made where you’re at now unless you own the company)

    If the answer is yes, then the MBA is the right choice for you

    1. There are actually a variety of things I’m hoping to accomplish. I don’t know if I mentioned this before (probably not) but I’ve had some headhunters call me looking for people doing what I do to interview for companies here and across the USA (one company in Florida in my industry was apparently familiar with the company I work for and wanted to lure me away). They all assumed I had an MBA though, and when they found I didn’t it made them think twice.

      The starting salaries for these jobs were over $120,000 a year. That’ll get you start thinking about an MBA real fast..

      But, I’d already considered it before that. I don’t want to say HEY I’M PLANNING TO LEAVE MY JOB … so I can’t really say too much in response to your question… but I will say I think it will give me more options I didn’t have before.

      And also – for whatever reason – I had a desire that rolled around the back of my head for years that I wanted to get a master’s degree before I turned 30. Did you know that I applied to the MFA program at Ohio State before I got my undergrad (to start as soon as I graduated)? I didn’t get accepted because I did the majority of my “good” work in the last 9 months or so I was there (as part of my thesis)… so the work they saw was…well… crap.

      As for where I’m at now… we’ll see…

  6. So what is the backlash here? Is it really a recognition that you and your father resent people who don’t achieve the same amount of education as you but make the same amount of money? Please somebody explain it to me.

    1. It kind of appears to be the other way around. Any suggestion that someone with an education can trump someone without seems to get your blood boiling (even though this is a pretty basic concept – otherwise society would have never developed educational systems). Enough to start calling people names…

      2. And it would seem that any of my suggestions that someone without an education can actually be more successful than someone with–is the heat of this argument.

        And that is not a personal attack, though you would view it as such. I simply stated in my first post–she had some valid points to her article. Points, that are valuable to take into consideration when deciding whether or not to pursue an advanced career.

        1. “Points, that are valuable to take into consideration when deciding whether or not to pursue an advanced career.”

          Sorry, I didn’t write that correctly. I meant: Points, that are valuable to take into consideration when deciding whether or not to pursue an advanced degree.

        2. Her argument is that the exception disproves the general rule–my argument (being better educated)is that logic shoild prevail. 1+1 is always greater that 1. Q.E.D. & res ipset loquator—back to you Chet.

    2. Define backlash–seems you have an ego problem. This has devolved to you screaming “my husband has a big one and you don’t” so untill you can come up with proof rather than stories like “my father smoked 3 packs a day and lived to be 100” to counter the general rule that smoking is bad for you—

      1. “This has devolved to you screaming “my husband has a big one and you don’t””

        No, just making the point that education does not always trump experience in every situation. You were actually the one who started all that nonsense.

          1. All else means everything but this one thing (every post-you can’t seem to comprhend the meaning). It’s a phrase the educated use to belittle those of small and common intellects who do our dirty work, and righty so. (I’ll show you mine if you show me yours)–I was explaining this to Renee Descarte and he said “i think not” and disappeared.

        1. And Jesus was a jew. Try reading my posts rather than looking in the mirror—THE EXCEPTION DOES NOT–DOES NOT–PROVE THE GENERAL RULE. hint: logic is involved.

        3. Gates was also a trust fund baby driving a Porsche before he dropped out of school to start Microsoft (look someone up before you use them as an example).

          Let us not forget he also scored a 1590 on his SATs – which is roughly equivalent to a 170 IQ (putting him above the 99th percentile)… Does that not sound like an exception to the rule?

          Another thing that these “Bill Gates didn’t get a degree” folks always forget is that Bill Gates (and others like him) typically WERE in school (and GOOD schools, in Gates’ case HARVARD) when their businesses took off. If the business didn’t get off the ground, Gates would have finished school at Harvard and taken a more traditional route to probably also a good deal of success (though maybe not world’s richest man). Many times the big whigs in these companies who “didn’t finish school” MET at prestigious universities. Where do you think Bill Gates met Steve Ballmer?

          1. & if gates had the proper education we would not have the steaming pile of dung called DOS and all it’s decendents. Gates wonderful “experence” is the source of your PC crashing at least once a day. Gates “experence” brought nothing to programming–thats why coders despise him. Oh I forgot—he’s got a bigger one–sooorrreey.

  7. “No, because you labeled me a snob for labeling those who don’t have as much education as stupid… which I never actually did… So, you’re doing the same thing (labeling) that you have accused me of by calling me a snob.

    Still don’t get it?”

    I never said don’t label people. I most certainly do it. “I think people who look down on others with less education are snobs.” There, see? I did it again. I simply said, don’t be a snob.

  9. “Fitting in (flaps wrist and giggles)”

    As the mother of three autistic kids this is highly offensive, but considering the source it really doesn’t matter. You’ll be an asshole just because you’re an asshole–not because you want to have a genuine debate with someone. Assholes will be assholes, and there’s nothing you can do to change them.

    I can always get more education, but you will always be an asshole.

    1. And you my dear–a c**t? See how that works? Grow up—-you brought in “silly” I didn’t know thats Cal. code for austic–don’t fire the big guns unless you are ready for the backsplash. Highly offensive my asshole.
      “highly ed-jew-kated a**hole”

    2. You really aren’t the center of the universe–hate to have to point that out–you came to this post with your “oh no, thats not right” comment.

  10. Went back to P’s blog and read other posts and comments.Wooooooooooooooow! Is the economy realy relying on 12 year old middle school girls in name of “equality”? No wonder it is in the crapper. Masters of Oral Sex? Holy sweet Jesus!

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